Ordinary Men真正的二战纳粹分子如何看待否认大屠杀的人？
奥斯卡·格罗宁 (Oskar Groning) 是奥斯威辛集中营的看守，没人愿意当。他的主要工作是整理新来的贵重物品。第三帝国的一大收入来源是移交的贵重物品。
战争结束后，奥斯卡并未受到指控。他在战争结束前被捕，在英国战俘营待了一段时间，战争结束后他回到了妻子身边。
再次见到他的妻子时，她询问了他的经历，他说“女孩，帮我们两个忙：不要问”，然后她就把它留在那里了。不久之后的一天，有人随口开了个玩笑说，考虑到奥斯卡在奥斯维辛的时间，他可能真的会成为一名杀手。他敲了敲桌子，要求任何人都不要再提到奥斯维辛集中营，否则他就离开。
奥斯卡想把他所做的一切抛在脑后。他是一个虔诚的纳粹分子，同样是奥斯威辛集中营的守卫，他希望这件事保密。
奥斯卡在一家玻璃厂找到了一份工作，并逐步晋升为管理职位。他在那里工作了几十年，过着非常正常的生活。奥斯卡收集邮票，甚至当过法官。
1985 年，奥斯卡遇到了一位否认大屠杀的人，并收到了一本关于否认大屠杀的小册子。奥斯卡对这种事情的存在感到震惊，于是上前提出异议。他发表了多次声明，并充分说明了他所看到的情况。
我看到了一切。毒气室，火葬，选择过程。150 万犹太人在奥斯维辛被杀害。我在那里。
我希望你相信我。我看到了毒气室。我看到了火葬场。我看到了明火。我希望你相信这些暴行发生了，因为我在那里
（信件/电话）来自那些试图证明我亲眼所见的人，我在奥斯威辛所经历的是一个很大很大的错误，对我来说是一个很大的幻觉，因为它没有发生。”
现在奥斯卡因此受审并被判有罪。这无关紧要，因为他在几年后去世，享年 93 岁。
但这向您展示了纳粹对大屠杀否认者的看法——他们认为否认者是白痴。
根据我所看到的消息来源，这主要是一种只是在做他们的工作的感觉。他们不害怕、不生气、不高兴或其他任何事情，他们只是履行自己的职责，就像你或我会做老板告诉我们在日常工作中做的事情一样。
《普通人》一书探讨了这是如何运作的。它跟随一群士兵，他们基本上是一支巡回敢死队，在城镇和社区被清算时集体杀害犹太人。一开始，他们中的大多数人断然拒绝杀害犹太平民。对此没有任何报复，他们基本上被告知，如果他们想坐下来，而他们更愿意的同志完成工作，这很酷。随着时间的推移，越来越多的人对整件事变得麻木不仁，开始卷入杀戮。驱使他们的不是仇恨或恐惧，而是平凡得多，推而广之也更可怕：简单的冷漠。他们被告知要做一份工作，所以他们就去做了，就这么简单。一旦他们最初的震惊减弱并且他们习惯了这个想法，他们就可以像农民屠宰牲畜一样热情地去做这件事——只是另一个需要完成的任务。这些人并不是特别忠于事业或意识形态的狂热纳粹分子，正如标题所暗示的那样，他们只是普通人。
我还听说，特别是集中营，有很多划分和努力，以确保没有一个人或一群人直接对杀戮负责。即使是向腔室泵入气体的人在事故发生时也不在腔室附近，也没有真正看到任何人死亡，至少我听说是这样。这给了营地里的很多工人似是而非的否认和认知失调，即使从逻辑上讲他们知道发生了什么，他们基本上可以否认并假装他们不是对此负责的人。
编辑：现在已经多次提出气体不是“泵入”而是齐克隆 B，它使用不同的方法要求人靠近腔室。我为这个错误道歉，我记得读过或听说过种族灭绝——我可以发誓那是大屠杀——肇事者使用远程方法杀人，以免让凶手痛苦。也许它仍然是大屠杀而不是死亡集中营本身？我不知道，无论哪种方式，我的基本观点只是强调许多参与他们所犯下的各种种族灭绝的纳粹分子往往具有更加冷静和脱节的态度。
The book “Ordinary Men” went into how this worked. It follows a unit of soldiers who were basically a roving death squad that killed Jews en masse when towns and communities were liquidated. In the beginning most of them outright refused to kill Jewish civilians. There was no retribution for this, they were basically told it was cool if they wanted to sit out while their more willing comrades got the job done. Over time though more and more of them became desensitized to the whole thing and started getting involved in the killings. It wasn’t hatred or fear that drove them, it was far more mundane and by extension scarier: simple apathy. They were told to do a job, so they did it, simple as that. Once their initial shock waned and they were used to the idea they could just go and do it with no more passion than a farmer butchering livestock - just another task to complete. And these weren’t ardent Nazis who were especially loyal to the cause or ideology, they were - as the title suggests - just ordinary guys.
I’ve also heard that with the concentration camps specifically there was a lot of compartmentalization and effort to make sure no one person or group of people was directly responsible for the killings. Even the people who pumped gas into the chambers were not near the chambers when it happened and didn’t really ever see anyone die, or so I hear at least. This gave a lot of the workers at the camps plausible deniability and maybe cognitive dissonance, even though logically they knew what was happening they could basically exist in denial and pretend that they were not the ones responsible for it.
Edit: It has been raised several times now that the gas was not “pumped in” but was Zyklon B, which uses different methods that require the person to have been close to the chamber. My apologies for the mistake, I can recall having read or heard about genocide - and I could’ve sworn it was the Holocaust - wherein the perpetrators used remote methods to kill people so as to not distress their killers. Perhaps it is still the Holocaust but not the death camps themselves? I don’t know, either way my basic point was simply to highlight the more clinical and disconnected attitude that a lot of Nazis involved in the various genocides they committed tended to have.
我们确信他们会遵循该计划。看看人们最近几年的行为。
Besides the tourism business in Thailand, do Thai people really feel that China and Chinese are the closer brother than anyone else?
What do real WW2 Nazis think about Holocaust deniers?
Oskar Groning was what nobody wants to be, a guard at Auschwitz. His primary job was sorting and valuables new arrivals turned over. A big source of income for the Third Reich was the valuables prisoners handed over.
When the war ended Oskar wasn’t brought up on charges. He was captured before the war ended, did some time in a British POW camp, and when the war ended he went home to his wife.
Upon seeing his wife again she asked about his experiences and he said “Girl, do both of us a favour: don't ask” and she left it there. One day a while later someone made an offhand joke that Oskar could actually be a killer given his time at Auschwitz. He banged on the table and demanded that nobody ever mention Auschwitz again or he would leave.
Oskar wanted to put what he had done behind him. He was a devout Nazi, an Auschwitz camp guard no less, and he wanted this to remain a secret.
Oskar got a job at a glass factory and worked his way up into a management role. He worked there for decades and lived a very normal life. Oskar collected stamps and was even a judge.
In 1985 Oskar met a Holocaust denier and was given a pamphlet on Holocaust denial. Shocked that such a thing exists, Oskar came forward to dispute it. He made multiple statements and gave a full account of what he had seen.
I saw everything. The gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there.
I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened, because I was there
(letters/calls) From people who tried to prove that what I had seen with my own eyes, what I had experienced in Auschwitz was a big, big mistake, a big hallucination on my part because it hadn't happened."
Now Oskar was put on trial for this and found guilty. It mattered little as he died a few years later at the age of 93.
But this shows you what Nazis think about Holocaust deniers- they think deniers are idiots.
This leads me to wonder something- Were the Nazi guards happy to carry out such atrocities at the time, or were they simply afraid to say no to their superiors, for fear of being punished/killed?
Not making any excuses for the evils they committed, but I'm curious of their motives at the time.
Based on sources I’ve seen it was mostly a sense of just doing their jobs. They weren’t afraid or angry or happy or anything, they just carried out their duties much the same as you or I would do something our boss told us to do at our own day jobs.
The book “Ordinary Men” went into how this worked. It follows a unit of soldiers who were basically a roving death squad that killed Jews en masse when towns and communities were liquidated. In the beginning most of them outright refused to kill Jewish civilians. There was no retribution for this, they were basically told it was cool if they wanted to sit out while their more willing comrades got the job done. Over time though more and more of them became desensitized to the whole thing and started getting involved in the killings. It wasn’t hatred or fear that drove them, it was far more mundane and by extension scarier: simple apathy. They were told to do a job, so they did it, simple as that. Once their initial shock waned and they were used to the idea they could just go and do it with no more passion than a farmer butchering livestock - just another task to complete. And these weren’t ardent Nazis who were especially loyal to the cause or ideology, they were - as the title suggests - just ordinary guys.
I’ve also heard that with the concentration camps specifically there was a lot of compartmentalization and effort to make sure no one person or group of people was directly responsible for the killings. Even the people who pumped gas into the chambers were not near the chambers when it happened and didn’t really ever see anyone die, or so I hear at least. This gave a lot of the workers at the camps plausible deniability and maybe cognitive dissonance, even though logically they knew what was happening they could basically exist in denial and pretend that they were not the ones responsible for it.
Edit: It has been raised several times now that the gas was not “pumped in” but was Zyklon B, which uses different methods that require the person to have been close to the chamber. My apologies for the mistake, I can recall having read or heard about genocide - and I could’ve sworn it was the Holocaust - wherein the perpetrators used remote methods to kill people so as to not distress their killers. Perhaps it is still the Holocaust but not the death camps themselves? I don’t know, either way my basic point was simply to highlight the more clinical and disconnected attitude that a lot of Nazis involved in the various genocides they committed tended to have.
###
However, with the Nuremberg trials we rightly decided that “just following orders” is not an adequate defense of murder or genocide. The world has used that legal tactic again and again against genocidal monsters. It’s all of our responsibilities to stop the abuse of human rights by monsters.
I would think it would have depended on the individual. Some didn't mind, some were following orders. In my opinion-most likely it was both for most guards.
No question that this must've been the case. Also that a certain amount of peer pressure takes place in groups of men as the group, as a whole, commits acts that each individual alone would be less capable, if not totally incapable, of commiting. Another likely possibility is that through time, shifting of roles/responsibilities and close observation of soldiers behavior, actual psychopathic minds would eventually surface and stand out from the rest. In these are people genuinely incapable of empathy or remorse and thus well suited for the uglier of the tasks that were required. Certainly the top ranks of nazi's were filled with psychopaths as the death camps themselves surely evolved from such mentalities, thus the sniffing out of psychopaths to utilize from amongst the general ranks would come easy to an observant, higher ranking psychopathic commander. As it is said… it takes one to know one.
Mass brainwashing? Grasp the fact that ww1 set in motion the conditions for Germans to believe Jews were THE enemy, and Jews writing in THE JEWISH NEWS that Judah declares war on Germany for all to see, did not help. You see things now, after the fact, but back then EVERYONE in the West liked what Hitler did up until around 1938, and saw him as just taking back GERMANY from what Versailles Treaty did. Nobody had to be brainwashed. At first, Hitler did GOOD for Germany AND Germans.
We know for sure they would have followed the plan. Look at people’s behaviour over the recent few years.
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