为什么穆斯林国家没有像日本那样在 19 世纪实现现代化?伊斯兰世界是否有过现代化的努力?

你在和拖延作斗争吗?

在回答问题的实质之前,我必须反驳Dimitris Almyrantis ,他在高度赞成的回答中写道:

只有在二战后的秩序在日本和西方之间建立了对抗中国的铁定联盟之后,西方人对明治日本的看法才转向更好。以前,人们对它们的看法与今天的伊斯兰国家很相似。

这是错误的,并且有一种“西方重写叙事以使新秩序合法化”的噱头。明治时期的日本不仅被同时代的人认为是现代的,而且还被穆斯林现代化者自己视为典范。

欧洲和北美起到了榜样的作用,但中东的许多人将日本的例子视为一个重要且令人鼓舞的先例。书中显示,日本民族吸引他们的是其非西方身份,这似乎满足了他们对“非西方现代性”的追求,即建立一个不只是照搬西方模式的现代国家。

想象日本的奥斯曼帝国:二十世纪之交的东方、中东和非西方现代性作者:Renée Worringer

现代明治日本的比喻在世纪之交依然活跃并蓬勃发展,这就是为什么年轻的土耳其流亡者在试图说服英国特工合作以反对奥地利吞并波斯尼亚时宣称自己是“近东的日本” - 1908 年的黑塞哥维那,为什么青年土耳其党记者 Abdullah Cevdet 将日本称为 [反对西方帝国主义] 的“火炬手”,或者为什么女权主义作家 Halide Edib Adıvar 以在 2008 年击败俄国人的日本海军上将命名她的儿子 Togo 1905.

当然,很多这样的谈话与日本实际上是如何现代化的几乎没有关系,这通常不是各派试图使他们的平台合法化的一种方式。青年土耳其党将其作为民族主义和世俗主义的典范,而与苏丹有联系的保守派则试图争辩说,日本的成功源于天皇臣民所表现出的忠诚奉献和服从。鉴于它是非穆斯林宗教,伊斯兰主义者很难将其用于他们自己的项目,但有些人出于天真或纯粹的一厢情愿声称日本正处于大规模皈依伊斯兰教的边缘,这将允许皇帝要求在亚洲领导外衣对抗帝国主义的基督教西方。

对于西方列强来说,“黄祸”不是“中世纪主义”,而是一种焦虑情绪,正是因为日本正在现代化,这给欧洲各个帝国在亚洲的属地带来了麻烦。

我在这里写过日本现代化的背景

但与手头的问题最相关的是,在明治初期,从 1870 年代到 1880 年代后期,日本愿意试验和采用它认为对国家现代化很重要的一切事物。一切都值得争论,从衣服到教育,到政府,到社会生活,到饮食(许多人提倡牛肉和牛奶作为智力的来源)甚至宗教,许多日本人皈依基督教,相信西方专门来自上述宗教。到 1880 年代后期,这种对西方事物的狂热已成为许多知识分子讽刺的对象,并最终导致保守主义的复兴

然而,正是在这种改革背景下,质疑旧有的习惯和真理,明治时期日本领导人之一中村正直公开建议天皇受洗成为基督徒,以便为国家树立榜样。这显然没有实现,但考虑到基督教在 1873 年之前一直被禁止和积极迫害,这一简单的事实表明了为了成功而进行实验、尝试和熟练的纯粹意愿。

在穆斯林世界几乎没有任何可比的时刻。现代化的努力通常是不够的、半心半意的,并且被看到自己的地位受到威胁的既得利益者破坏。

一群日本人正在玩 Kokkuri 游戏,这是一种类似于转桌的占卜游戏,在明治时代初期非常流行,深受欧美唯灵论潮流的影响,这是对西方事物的狂热的一部分。

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Songkhla 的头像
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Ben Fi 的头像

哟,你应该多写点东西,只是说说而已 :))

Andrei Istrate 的头像
Johannes Sulistyo 的个人资料照片
David Martineau 的头像

在 19 世纪后半叶和 20 世纪上半叶,日本确实是非白人民族的灯塔。可悲的是,他们在第二次世界大战期间的野蛮行径几乎彻底粉碎了这一形象,彻底摧毁了全人类的形象。

Jonathan Kurtzman 的头像

现代化是惊人的和快速的。我喜欢 19 世纪晚期的木刻版画,画中穿着西装和制服的日本男人紧挨着穿着传统服饰的女人。

Alistair R. Thompson 的头像

许多 19 世纪的欧洲艺术家,例如图卢兹-洛特累克 (Toulouse-Lautrec),也喜爱日本版画并从中汲取灵感。

Hungy Ye 的头像

黑猫白猫抓到老鼠的才是好猫

Luit Paran Baishya 的个人资料照片

日本,根本上是一个儒家社会;因此,实用主义和功能性是它的基因。

伊斯兰教和印度教一样,陷入了自己创造的蜘蛛网中。

Akihito Chakma 的个人资料照片

继续改革,即使它有障碍可悲的是,大多数现代改革者,如 Raja Ram Mohun Roy 已经作为过去的遗物被埋葬,没有人继承社会改革的遗产,我并不是要冒犯现在的印度教是极其僵化和保守的和岛屿

Luit Paran Baishya 的个人资料照片
Duy H. Bùi 的头像

日本根本不是很儒家。儒家思想是从中国引进的,但从未在他们的社会中扎根。你把日本和韩国搞混了。

Mark Vashmel 的头像

有趣的历史,在彼得大帝统治和俄罗斯西化期间,俄罗斯也发生过类似的事情。

Ahmet Tuğrul Başokur 的头像

没有必要写长句子。答案很简单。只有土耳其不是自治领,它有机会发展世俗制度。所有其他穆斯林国家在第二次世界大战之前都是自治领,它们被帝国主义及时冻结了。日本也没有被外国人占领。

vivo X90 系列搭载联发科天玑 9200。
Ahmed Abdelhaq Zaydan 的头像

摩洛哥不能,它需要法国使其现代化

1844 年,摩洛哥和法国开战,一支规模较小的法国军队击败了一支规模较大的摩洛哥军队。苏丹阿卜杜拉赫曼(在位 1822-1859 年)不是傻子,他知道必须要有一些东西来解释为什么摩洛哥如此容易被打败。因此,他派遣私人秘书穆罕默德前往法国,目的有两个:

  1. 谈判和平
  2. 了解法国如何变得如此优越

穆罕默德按照命令行事,并向苏丹通报了法国正在做的这些非常奇怪的新事情。列举 4 个重要的:

  1. 法国有一个中央集权政府,巴黎的官员决定政策 t
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他们确实在日本之前很久就尝试过现代化。土耳其和埃及在 1800 年代初开始现代化。日本如此成功的原因有很多,一个重要的原因是日本人从未被欧洲人殖民过。日本没有什么能吸引欧洲人的东西,所以它被孤立了。这给了日本发展的空间,由有远见的统治阶级领导。与埃及相比,后者在穆罕默德·阿里(不是拳击手,大约在 1800-1850 年统治)的领导下实现了非常快的现代化。埃及是世界上最早拥有铁路的国家之一,它拥有现代化的工厂

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Dimitris Almyrantis 的个人资料照片

Sure. More than half a century before Japan instituted the Meiji reforms, under the Alavid reforms of the 1810s-30s Egypt had built up a domestic industry, a modern military, a colonial empire in Africa, and had created the first stirring of Arab nationalism and literature as an example for others to follow in the next century. Of course, the British empire smelled wealth and invaded, but that is not the product of a failed Egyptian state but of an overmighty British one. As is evident today, after being let go - and partitioned as a parting gesture - Egypt never quite recovered.

Turkey - large

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“Muslim countries” meant the Ottoman Empire and very few others. One of the limitations of the Ottoman world was the latency in adopting the printing press. There is little doubt about the intellectual achievements of the Persian, North African, Moorish Spain throughout the Middle Ages exceeded that of the northern coast of the Mediterranean. But the game changer for the Christian Europe during the Renaissance was the invention, use and propagation of the printing press.

This gave the rate of exchange of ideas and thoughts a tremendous leap that was all but absent in the Muslim world. There was

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Some Muslim countries had a heavy and some a light Ottoman Turk overlord relationship, which by then was a moribund culture rather than an innovating one. Some were European colonies in formal terms or due to financial strangleholds, and while the US shows that colonies can be part of the intellectual vanguard the ethnic and religious difference created a wall of ethnocentrism and racism and overweening attitude of European toward non-European colonial subjects: the locals were only trained for local administration and extractive purposes rather than with a goal toward bringing them to equal s

Because for religious biases Muslim countries considered (and most of them still consider) their civilization superior to the Western and Eastern (Chinese) civilizations. Al Ghazali, perhaps the most influential Muslim thinker after the Prophet, refused the principle of causality because could undermine the omnipotence of God. For centuries Muslims refused to print books limiting the diffusion of new ideas. Only Turkey modernized itself after WW1 in a way similar to Japan in 1868–1912 (take the best from the West, but remain Japanese). Japan was and is not a country were religion plays the cen

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It depends on the country but for Morocco it was history then Islam then division

Morocco and Japan are similar superficially.

  • Both kingdoms are ruled by a sacred monarch of sorts.
  • Both kingdoms saw their monarch serve more as a figurehead
  • Both kingdoms had long histories with ancient noble families and periods of civil wars

However Morocco and Japan differ greatly due to the Meiji restoration which began when Japanese nobles fought over the path the East Asian nation should take which led to a brief civil war which the pro-reform nobility won and pursued a path of modernization where they adapted

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There are a number of factors that contributed to the lack of modernization in many Muslim countries during the 19th century. One of the main reasons is that these countries were under colonial rule, which often stifled economic and social development. Additionally, many Muslim countries were politically and socially unstable, making it difficult to implement the kinds of reforms that were needed for modernization.

There were some efforts to modernize within the Islamic world during this period. For example, in the Ottoman Empire, there were a number of modernization efforts known as the Tanzim

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Religion and culture are the main drivers here as I see it. While many within Islam embraced these new things the majority rejected them. A failure to educate women contributed to this. You educate a mother and you’ve educated the entire family. The children from birth. If your mother only knows a holy book and ancient traditions that’s all you will learn about before school. You still see it today. Being a Muslim secularist in an Islamic country is pretty much a death sentence in many Muslim countries. You have to have Islam in everything. If it’s incompatible with Islam you ignore it or reac

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People today pity Jews because they have been one of the most persecuted religions. First, they were persecuted by Christians. Then, Hitler killed around two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe. Around 6 million Jews were killed in holocaust.

But the biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history. World seems ignorant about the greatest massacre in the History of Mankind. Hindus were the most persecuted religious group. There is hardly any awareness among the Indians of today of what happened to their ancestors in the past, because a great majority of historians are

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One word: Tribalism

Japan, like the West had been used to rule by a national government, by Emperor and by Shogun.

Most of Africa and the Middle East are still in many ways, ruled by petty tribal and regional differences. Why you see so many wars and conflicts rage in places like Tripoli, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon is because of various religious, regional and tribal identities.

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A2A.

There are already a lot of great, in-depth answers, so I will just make brief, bullet point remarks

  • The Japanese people are extremely united. Conformity is highly stressed in their culture, so when the government ordered to modernize, most of the Japanese were on board. The Chinese were not at all united in the 19th century; the ruling imperial family were Manchus, but the majority were Han. Although racial tensions between Han and Manchu don’t exist anymore, they were very much alive back in the 19th century.
  • Chinese lost the Opium War to Britain, and as a result, had to legalize opium. A s
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The Islamic world like Qing China was unlike Japan used to being the center of the world and unwilling to learn from the West. The Japanese were “used” to imitating wholesale foreign culture; they did it centuries earlier with China. Of course there were attempts to modernize in the Muslim world, e.g. in the Ottoman empire as it tried to shrug off the nickname “Sick Man of Europe.” In the 19th century initial Islamization was the issue in many places, never mind Westernization.

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